Text of Boris Yeltsin Interview on CNN With AM-Soviet-Politics, Bjt

MOSCOW (AP) _ Here is the text of an interview with Russian Federation President Boris Yeltsin conducted Tuesday by Cable News Network correspondents Steve Hurst and Claire Shipman. It was translated by CNN and transcribed by the Federal News Service.

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HURST: President Yeltsin, we thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to speak with us. (Audio break) - and in your speech, you said that Mr. Gorbachev's indecisiveness and capitulation were partly to blame for the coup, but in the same breath you said that you now believed in Mr. Gorbachev.

Can you tell us what he has done specifically to make you believe in him, and beyond that, can you talk about your relationship? It's been a roller- coaster relationship and you've been at each other's throats many times politically. Please tell us about that relationship.

YELTSIN: I would put it in a slightly different manner. Our relationship was not always strained over the past times. At first they were irreconcilable, then they were very difficult, until April of last year when he began to change his position.

Yes, my position was very intransigent in January when he supported the right-wing forces. And then since April he began to support the democratic reforms in this country and the democratic movement, although he was not quite sincere - let me put it that way - because of transient political interests.

But nevertheless, we were able to sign a joint statement at Nova Ogorova on the 22nd of April. After that we had a businesslike relationship and a balanced relationship. It was not a harsh relationship but not friendly either because I did not trust him completely in the sense that we have agreement on an issue and then he would go back on an agreement.

For instance, he promised to go to the G-7 meeting in London with the (economist Grigory) Yavlinsky program but he went there with (then-Prime Minister Valentin) Pavlov's program and now it is perfectly clear that Pavlov was doing all he could to excite the people and to bring the public to the boiling point so that the people would overthrow the government in this country.

However, after the coup he had come back from the Crimea and he was a different man. I think that before the coup he did not trust me either. He trusted his advisers who tried to instill fear in him and they told him that Yeltsin wanted to remove him from power, that Yeltsin was intransigent and that Yeltsin had only one idea, to take Gorbachev's seat, although I was using the mass media, including your company, that is, CNN, and I went on record and said that I was not going to take Gorbachev's place. I received a mandate from the people and I have a post which makes my responsibility very big just as it is.

And when he came back from the Crimea, we first talked on the phone. He was at that time in the Crimea, then he came back from the Crimea, we again talked on the phone, and then we had a personal meeting and then it was a different man. Yes, I understand that Russia has changed, that the country has changed, the people have changed, but the president has changed as well. He has finally realized that it is only by relying on the broad-based democratic movement and by supporting democratic reform, economic reform, the transition to the market, the integration into the world economic community, support for private enterprise, et cetera, only these factors can pull this country from this crisis. Now he believes in Russia. He has always been suspicious but now he believes in Russia because Russia has saved not only democracy but it has saved our country in the eyes of the world economic community.

I think that he believes that I am sincere in my relationship with him. The tone of his voice, the openness, were all there. We were very open, we were very frank and sincere. We were talking as two politicians that were working together very closely and now I trust him. I trust him entirely, or almost entirely, much more so than three weeks ago when he was still capable of maneuvering and meandering. Now this is his last chance. If he continues together with the democratic movement and Russia, if he recognizes the independence of all other republics, yes, then his political life will be extended.

SHIPMAN: President Yeltsin, couldn't it be said that your newfound confidence in President Gorbachev has much to do with the fact that you are calling the shots now? Just after the coup you issued a series of decrees that many people would have felt were more appropriate for the Soviet president. You practically handpicked the KGB, defense and interior ministers. Isn't it true that you have emerged as the most powerful politician?

YELTSIN: As regards whether I am more influential or less influential, this is something for public opinion polls, and this is something that can be adequately assessed by the mass media in this country and abroad, but let us rely on facts.

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For the three days of the putsch, we did not have - the Supreme Soviet and the chief commander of the armed forces was isolated in the Crimea and I assumed the command of the armed forces in the territory of Russia.

I froze the archives of the KGB and the defense ministry and the ministry of foreign affairs so that they would not be destroyed. In fact, some documents were destroyed, burnt. I mean the documents that are used as evidence by the office of the Procurator General to bring to justice the plotters. And then we have no administrative bodies of power in Russia to oppose the junta and we relied on the people. But then again, the ministry of foreign affairs and troops went over to the side of the president of Russia because the putsch was spear-headed against Russia in the first place, and my steps were justified.

Something wrong with this earpiece.

Anyway, as regards the appointment of the chief of the KGB and the minister for the interior and the defense minister, this is not so because I have not published any decrees regarding that. However, this is Russia, this is 150 million people and taking into account the significance of Russia, especially its role in crushing the coup and taking into account the fact that the troops did not go against the people but went over to the side of the president of the Russian federation, at that time I raised the idea of a coalition government one more time so that the government of the country would be composed of the representatives of the national republics and the four key posts to be given to Russia: the prime minister, the defense minister, the chairman of the KGB, and the minister for the interior, and I made those proposals to the president of the country. At present (Defense) Minister (Yevgeny) shaposhnikov is not a representative of Russia and let me tell you why. He was deputy minister of defense, but he refused to participate in the coup, just as (Pavel) Grachev, first deputy defense minister. And then I suggested that Moiseyev be removed from his post because he was involved in the putsch, although on the evening of the day before, Gorbachev appointed him acting defense minister.

Then I said that that had been a mistake because that would enable him to cover his tracks, burn documents, and then that situation was put right and then Shaposhnikov was appointed. As regards (Valentin) Verennikov, yes, it is true he was the minister for the interior of Russia. I know him only too well and I recommended him to Gorbachev.

Gorbachev has made many mistakes in key appointments. In fact, he was betrayed by all. In fact, all his aides betrayed him and this is his tragedy. I was not betrayed by anyone at the most difficult moment. Therefore, I recommended Varennikov to the post of the defense minister and I am confident that he will not betray either me or the president, and, which is more important, the people or the country.

And then again, the KGB is (Vadim) Bakatin, an appointee of Russia. He was aide to Gorbachev. But I trust him and I believe that his heart, he belongs in part to Russia and in part to Gorbachev, but he will honestly carry out his duties and he will overhaul the KGB. We have the so-called 12th department and several million people, seven million people in their homes are being bugged and this is against the law. This is unconstitutional. The secretary at the Central Committee, (Valery) Boldin, has volumes and volumes and volumes of documents. These are documents tracing the life of Yeltsin since 1989. All telephones were tapped. No matter where I called from, telephones were tapped. The dossier, the file consists of all sorts of documents and this is all about the president of Russia. This is illegal. This is unconstitutional.

The department I'm talking about should be eliminated. In the United States there is only one person who can authorize these steps to be taken, but behind him there's the Procurator General, who performs the function of oversight, so I call for the elimination of the so-called 12th department of the KGB. hundred telephones are being tapped, or were tapped in Moscow. For the past few days my telephones have been working much better. They are not clicking any longer. So even the president of the Russian federation was being bugged. And then these people, what do you say, that these people are candidates of the Russian federation? It's not quite so. They are honest people and they will carry out their duties honestly and they will not betray either Russia or the people or Gorbachev or Yeltsin.

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HURST: Mr. President, you've spoken a great deal about pride in your activities and of Russia through the three days the coup. You said today in your speech that Russia would never become an empire, but at the same time it wouldn't be the big the small brother in the relationships with the republics.

But many people in the republics fear - the non-Russians fear - that Russia is going to become a bully, that Boris Yeltsin going to become a bully. I don't know that words are enough to those fears. Have you got concrete action planned?

YELTSIN: First off, the concerns were voiced in the and a delegation was sent to the Ukraine immediately. It headed by Vice President Rutskoi, and Sobchak went there as The same concerns were raised in Kazakhstan and Vice President Rutskoi went there and the concern was removed.

By my statement earlier today I reaffirmed my position. We equal relations. The imperial attitudes are a thing of the and Russia will have equal relations with all other republics we will protect the interests of the people of Russia. Nothing be done to jeopardize the interests of the people of Russia.

We should be building our economic relations in such a manner as the people of Russia should not always provide assistance to nations. We need to build an equal relationship as regards and trust in me as well.

After that victory, one would have thought that Yeltsin would euphoric and would try to dictate, to impose his will onto Gorbachev is living through this situation today, but I through this situation four, five years ago when I was trampled upon here in Moscow virtually by everybody.

It was at that time that I crossed the line and now I'm in of democratic Russia and equal relations between Russia and other republics.

Earlier this day I said that there are different levels of and sovereignty and some republics may join the union associate members, as fully fledged members of the union, and is something that is acceptable to all. Even the Baltic which have been recognized by my decree as independent do want to join the economic agreement and sign it. So the will be signed by all the republics of the union.

I don't think there are any grounds for concern and I would to use this possibility, the large audience of CNN, and assure that nothing of the kind will happen. This is all a thing of past.

SHIPMAN: Mr. President, you said today in your speech to that it was very important for the armed forces, especially nuclear weapons, to remain under central control. It's our that about 90 percent of the Soviet nuclear weapons are on Russian territory. First, do you have plans to bring the remaining 10 percent to territory, and second, do you have any plans to dismantle the nuclear arsenal at all?

YELTSIN: First of all, as regards the transfer of all weapons to the Russian territory, the Ukraine has proclaimed a non-nuclear republic. Therefore, the strategic nuclear in the Ukraine are being pulled out from the Ukraine to Kazakhstan is another nuclear republic and Kazakhstan is a statement to proclaim itself as a non-nuclear republic the strategic weapons from Kazakhstan will be transferred to Now let me explain our position. First, to set up a special - it is being set up - have set up a committee to nuclear weapons so that it is not used either by hawks or or ultra-right wing forces or terrorists, because this is dangerous at the present time.

Apart from the central government, we want Russia to control weapons and to be responsible for nuclear weapons on the of Russia, and we want to be answerable to the whole community so that we keep a finger on the button as well. As regards the second part of your question, we are in favor total elimination of nuclear weapons in Russia, proclaimed that the first congress of Russian deputies. But then there are factors involved, i.e., reasonable security. We need to parity with other nations and we need to promote the idea of non-proliferation and extend it to other countries.

I think personally that it is not a major victory when 50 of nuclear weapons are earmarked for elimination in a when 5 percent is enough to destroy the whole world. We to continue our work to eliminate all nuclear weapons, and Russia will work to bring that about.

Also it is necessary to stop underground nuclear tests. The range in Semipalatinsk will be closed but then again there's issue of Novaya Zemlya. This is part of Russia. This territory in the north of Russia and this is very sensitive environmentally it will not - if we damage the environment, it will not be in 1,000 years.

We need to prevent further testing of nuclear weapons and call on President Bush and all the other nuclear powers to stop tests of nuclear weapons, and this will be one of the elements will help to destroy nuclear weapons on earth. This is our position of principle. END TEXT

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